It has come up a few times now, so I thought I would explain my perspective for what it's worth. All of what I saw is under the premise that the goal is to attain the highest TNW. I understand that many of you have different goals of playing, but that is where my reasoning comes from.

Fact #1 anybody can break the defense of even the strongest country if they plan well enough.

Fact #2 some attacks are intended to benefit the attackers country and some attacks are intended only to harm the defenders country

Fact #3 alliances can deter attackers who wish to benefit their own country because strong alliances guarantee a successful retal

Fact #4 if you do not land trade you will not compete for the best TNW.

Because of those facts I believe that the 16 country string the the greatest TNW each set will be a 0 defense land trader in a large alliance who did not get suicided on during the set.

With that said alliances cannot deter suiciders because a suicider does not care about what happens to their country they are simply trying to ruin someone else's set. So there is a large element of luck associated with winning a TNW competition. I got lucky last set when suiciders only took about 150M NW, this set I was not lucky.

Next set I will landtrade with defense but I will not be able to achieve the best TNW again. That would not be possible while there are some that will run without defense and get lucky.

The cost of landtrading with defense is large, and the benefit is rather small. If I carry a ton of turrets and tanks then a suicider can still ruin my set if they want, I just make it harder. Defending from a suicider is not the same as defending from a landgrabber, it requires much more defense. A landgrabber will look for the weakest country with an acceptable land return. A suicider doesn't care about your defense, they care only about the impact they can create on the server/individual.

I think that this type of environment on this server makes it much less enjoyable to net. There is far too much risk and luck needed to be the top netter in a set.

I propose that rules be implemented to make suiciding more difficult/impossible.

AND that rules be implemented to deter 0 defense countries.

GDI can be changed to help illiminate suiciding, and clan politics can be changed to allow the landgrabbing of 0 defense countries. This will eliminate some of the luck needed.

Here we go again

wait. you farm untag countries and get suicided. then it's 'luck' that others don't get suicided when they don't farm untags? batman, quick, to the batmobile!

ok ok, i won't be so rash. but think of it this way. it involves luck. but when you have 0 defense you are opening up a wide range of suiciders. any single person could then do whatever they wish on you for whatever reason. in the alliance server everyone pacts out and farms untags. here, there is a lower player base but higher country ratio, so farming untags brings a huge risk of suiciders. i bet if you put 2m troops, 2m turrets, 250k tanks you can still self-farm. have 6m jets and don't ally up and you will have 3 2m jet ps's per day. on 60,000 acres, don't those numbers seem feasible? isn't that the 'price' to pay for being massive?

Lol,ya,echo!

also, if you buy up defense, you force a suicider to move on to the next chap, the one who decides he's going for 'luck' and risking running his 0 defense land traders

and please don't say that 'any defence is suicidable' because that's not always true, and takes a lot more time to plan than you might think and typically involves less destruction over time because you are left with less countries in shambles

the countries that suicided on me weren't people that I have attacked. And this isn't only about me, if I was the only player this has happened to there wouldn't be anything worth debating.

The defense you described above closely resembled the defense of SG2 which was part of the suicide run. But that is not the point either.

I can easily run with that defense, but the cost of doing that prohibits me from winning. That is my point. I think this game was made to be played with defense, but you can't win with defense now.

How much defense are we talking about? 100k turrets? 1m turrets? 10m turrets?

I do believe that any defense is suicidable.
And I dont' believe that suiciders will move to the next chap...I think their goal is to ruin the set of the biggest chap.

If I'm at 100k acres with 25 million networth, is it possible for me to defend myself from a 15k acre 25 million networth suicider who chooses to stockpile a few billion cash, and then spend it on jets or tanks?

I want to reiterate that my point is not that you shouldn't have a defense while netting.

The point is that clan politics have detered landgrabs so much that it encourages 0 defense. And the netting competition feeds this as well.

Suiciders (without being instigated) have the ability to ruin the set of the best run countries.

where are these 15k acre 25m networth suiciders with a few billion cash?

If they aren't around, then 100k acre 25m networth countries are safe while stockpiling.

your countries were 'ruined' by countries with like 500 turns played? show me where a turn 200 country can ruin a 100k acre 25m nw country? or a turn 2000 country with 50m cash and 4000 acres? my argument is that you aren't encouraged to run 0 defense, you choose to.

Mike, can a string with defense while landtrading finish with the top TNW?

I think the answer is no, but maybe I am wrong. I'll try to find out next set.

I still think that the point of defense shouldn't be to resist suiciders, but to resist attacks made with the intention of benefiting the other country.

The status of the Tyranny of i r win (#4174).
The Basics
Turns Left 4
Turns Taken 350
Turns Stored 117
Rank 78
Networth $13,038,906

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The status of the Tyranny of a (#4208).
The Basics
Turns Left 0
Turns Taken 271
Turns Stored 120
Rank 124
Networth $11,506,093


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1469 is a regrettable loss. he lost to several 5m nw countries, proof that any country is killable. does that mean that a single person with 16 could kill 16 of those? no, you have the support of 15 of your OWN countries to help it out. just like the other 16 will be helping themselves. i see 17 countries above 100,000 acres and the only one above 25m nw is one with 38m nw at 290k acres. now the fear should be what happens when all those suiciders team up? when you have 32, 48, 64, or 128 killing your netters. as of now everything is suicidable with 0 defense. you protect 16 countries and you lose maybe 1 or 2? will they kill you or just AB you to the ground? netting should be enjoyable if you are doing it right. don't depend on the luck you have and i'm sure you'll see far better set outcomes.

i didn't say you'd be the best. your skill level will determine your final TNW. do the top countries in the alliance server run 0 defence? i doubt it. maybe if full explore, but i rarely see them complain that they were suicided with 0 defence.

look at your top commies andrewmose. i bet he found lots like that and said "hey, i could easily ruin this guys set by grabbing him 4 times without wasting a single penny" and SG2 is a shame. with that many turrets the person must have tried fairly hard to mess with you and im sorry for assuming it was low defence. unless you've bought up since then i still see danger in the military ratios.

You are comparing apples and oranges. I don't play 1a but because there isn't land trading the cost of having a large defense is much lower. I wouldn't play tournament, primary or express without defense either.

But landtrading becomes much more costly with defense. And FFA is the only server with landtrading.

I may not be the best but I am trying to beat the best though. I believe I finished with the top TNW last set and I was certainly pushing the envelope with my strategy this set to see just how high I could go.

I believe that the top TNW string this set will be one that ran 0 defense.

it looks like a lot of suiciders see who is running low/no defense. after taking a look at your countries its painfully obvious how you could be targeted. the biggest, best finish looking countries running no defense is a prime suicider target. the guy could have grabbed others with no defense, then gotten the funds to grab you if you had 2m, or he could've found other no defense countries. luck, you would call it. but then you give no deterrent to farming or suiciding on your countries.

It all comes down to cost and benefit of defense. The cost of defense is forfeiting the top spot...the benefit is being "safer" against suiciders.

I don't think that makes netting very enjoyable.

I would much rather protect against landgrabbers who are trying to compete with me for TNW, and be allowed to grab from those who are competing against me and running 0 defense.

You cannot compete for TNW and defend from suiciders.

I should caveat that this is all during the growth phase. Once you stop growing/landtrading. It is very easy to buy up enough defense to protect your countries.

Two sets ago, I would have had the top tnw if I hadn't been killed by CC. Instead, I'm pretty sure that Newworld beat out Ozzite for top personal TNW, and he did it while keeping defense while landtrading.

So the answer is yes, you can win TNW while keeping defense.

Well then maybe I am making too big a deal out of this...I didn't know that.

Next set I will see what I can do.

wenis

This topic should have been debated from a different angle.

You should have started with "suiciders are too powerful" then your agruement would have been valid.


Cause anyone with 10% of a brain can run a 5k-10k acre country, and stock up 100m bushels. Then blow that 100m bushels and break anything out there. Heck anyone with half a brain could build up a country with 300m bushels. So 300m*$36= 10.8b cash. = 72m jets if u buy for $150. So who out there is ever going to be running around with 75m Turrets to defend against that.
But still the 100m bushel example is easy as to achieve and if you look at full blown war built countries that dont care about their finishing nw, they dont even run around with 20m Turets. Cause everyone knows its not sustainable.

And im talking running your country solo. If you pooled together 16 countries...fluff it would be so much easier.

And what consequence do suiciders have. Their profiles are private. You dont know who they are. They destroy your set. The tag wastes turns killing them....

So far i see no negatives to being a suicider.

very valid arguement Drinks

8 HIV (#54) Game profile 50,540 $471,246,435 TG


2 sets ago, not 1 self farm AND was during a WAR SET where we warred for 2 weeks..


proof you do NOT need self farming to place top 10.

every acre i got was from untagged countries!!!!

p.s. notice the gov't if i was a DEMO, i would have had idk 12% more nw??


just saying :)

Go Donny. Go Donny.

Now imagine if all the poor little untags were wiped out by these mean people. I think you should declare war on all netting clans to defend the untags. In return they should have to pay a tribute of max FA every day to support your war effort.

Well I ran 15 untaggs for a bit this set and they were consistently hit by netting alliances whose NW was millions more. They did double, triple & quad taps. I could have retaliated and killed but I didn't care a bit. But food for thought is if you farm unfairly you will be treated unfairly in return.

If you retalled, those netting alliances wouldn't kill you off just for doing 1:1 retals. I do know of another alliance on this server which doesn't accept 1:1 retals .... ;)

Eh but how to break a 10 mil NW country with a 1mil NW country. So I just let it go. No reason to change build/strat for a retal

My bad, carried over a different topic from another thread. Ignore me.

I Suggest making untags tag up into 1 man tags as a minimum. Then have them post on forums which are their countries. Therefore we know who they are. Cause sure u might not know who from Focus suicided you, but u would be able to demand reps from Focus.