i didn't mean "you all" as everyone else, but some of the rest.

its not moral high ground, i'm just trying to iterate my point that it's more important to teach how to retal/estabilish/etc. than just blindly giving pacts. they are still getting farmed was my point.

that was my original point, and i'm just saying how it is.

semi-related point is my political stance i don't believe in giving welfare without programs to make people less dependent on them. that's just my belief. even though i live in san francisco and they like to hand money out to homeless people like candy, i see how it doesn't work (and those bums are still on the street)... while if you have programs to trade welfare for assistance programs i personally believe it works better...